plato on tradition and belief

plato on tradition and belief

passage 1
1. SOCRATES- So you wouldnt agree that this kind of endurance [that is, foolish endurance] is courage, because its not admirable – but courage is admirable.
2 LACHES- Thats true.
3 SOCRATES – so according to your account, wise endurance will be courage.
4 Laches – So it seems.
5 SOCRATES – well then, suppose that during war a man shows endurance by being prepared to fight. He has calculated his chances intelligently; he has realised that others will support him, that hes fighting an enemy outnumbered and outclassed by his own side, and that he has the stronger position. now, which would you say is more courageous: the man who shows endurance when he knows he has all these resources, or a man from the opposing camp who is willing to show endurance in standing against him?
6 LACHES – id say the man in the opposing camp, Socrates.
7 SOCRATES – but surely his endurance is more foolish than that of the other?
8 LACHES – yes, youre right.
9 SOCRATES – so foolish endurance is courage?
10 Laches – it seems so.

READING 1.2

SOCRATES – So as i say, try to state what courage is.
LACHES – Really Socrates! thats not hard to do, if someones ready to stand in the ranks, to fend of the enemy not to retreat, theres no doubt, hes courageous.
SOCRATES – Well said Laches, still the question youve answered isnt the one i had in mind, but a different one. perhaps im to blame because i didnt explain it clearly.
LACHES – What are you talking about Socrates?
SOCRATES – Ill explain, if i can, this man you describe. the man who stands in the ranks and fights the enemy – he is courageous, i grant you.
LACHES – id certainly say so.
SOCRATES – And i agree. but what about by another example – someone who fights the enemy by retreating and giving ground?
LACHES – what do you mean by "retreating"?
SOCRATES – I suppose as people say the Scythians fight – as much in retreat as in persuit. and perhaps as homer says when he is praising Aeneas’ horses; dashing now here and now there, experts in chase and flight.
LACHES – And thats fine, Socrates, bcause he was describing chariots. and you were talking about scythian cavalry. cavalry do fight like that. but infantry fight in the way i described.
SOCRATES – well, thats what i meant just now. when i said i was to blame when you didnt give a good answer, because i didnt put my question very well. i didnt want you to tell me only about people who are courageous in an infantry action, but also about people who are courageous in a cavalry action. and in every kind of warfare, and not just about people who are courageous in war but also about people who are courageous amid dangers at sea, and all those who are courageous in ilness or poverty, and in political life. because i take it, laches, that all these people are courageous.
LACHES – yes very much so, Socrates.
SOCRATES – so try again to tell me what courage is. first and foremost, tell me what all these people have in common, or do you still not understand completely?
LACHES – not completely.
SOCRATES – Well this is what im getting at. suppose that i were to ask what quickness is, thats something that can be found in running, and in playing the lyre, we can be quick in doing just about anything worth mentioning, would you agree with that?
LACHES -yes i would.
SOCRATES – so now suppose that someone were to ask me, what do you say that it is, this quality, that in all these activities you call quickness? id answer what i call quickness is th ability to do much in little time, wether its to do with speaking, running or any other activity.
LACHES – youd be giving the right answer too.
SOCRATES well then laches, its your turn, try to state what courage is in the same way. what is it thats common to all the examples of courage weve just mentioned?

READING 1.3

LACHES – well now it seems to me that courage is a sort of endurance in ones charecter.if i have to say what it is in every case.
SOCRATES – but of course you mustif we are going to have an answer to our qustion.
LACHES – courage is one of the most admirable things, you need have no doubt about that.
SOCRATES – when its coupled with good sence, endurance is admirable and good is it not?
LACHES – yes it is
SOCRATES – but what if it is coupled with foolishness? would you say its an admirable thing then?
LACHES – that wouldnt be right Socrates.
SOCRATES – so you wouldnt agree that this kind of endurance is courage, because it is not admirable, but courage is admirable
LACHES – thats true.

 

questions

1.towards the beginning of passage, socrates gets laches to agree to a new definition of courage, what is it? 5 marks

2. what conclusion do socrates and laches reach at the end of a passage? why might laches be surprised by this conclusion? 5 marks

3. how does socrates argue for this conclusion? 5 marks.

4. in readings 1.2 and 1.3 laches has already offered two definitions of courage. explain what they are and how socrates argues against each of them. briefly identify one objection that might be made to one of socrates’ arguments. 35 marks

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